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	<title>Comments on: My clients need to stop playing doctor</title>
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	<description>Way behind the scenes of a dog &#38; cat hospital -and everything your veterinarian doesn&#039;t want you to know</description>
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		<title>By: ELavegenZen</title>
		<link>http://levittownvetblog.com/general/clients-stop-playing-doctor/#comment-548</link>
		<dc:creator>ELavegenZen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://levittownvetblog.com/?p=145#comment-548</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Guys,Just registered here and looking to have a great time. I am looking for the best cash gifting program out there in the internet. Can you guide me?</p>
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		<title>By: pokerice</title>
		<link>http://levittownvetblog.com/general/clients-stop-playing-doctor/#comment-547</link>
		<dc:creator>pokerice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 22:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://levittownvetblog.com/?p=145#comment-547</guid>
		<description>I  read this forum since 2 weeks and now i have decided to register to share with you my ideas. &lt;a href=&quot;http://inglourious-seo.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;:)&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I  read this forum since 2 weeks and now i have decided to register to share with you my ideas. <a href="http://inglourious-seo.com" rel="nofollow">:)</a></p>
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		<title>By: achieredraday</title>
		<link>http://levittownvetblog.com/general/clients-stop-playing-doctor/#comment-541</link>
		<dc:creator>achieredraday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://levittownvetblog.com/?p=145#comment-541</guid>
		<description>You could easily be making money online in the underground world of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.www.blackhatmoneymaker.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blackhat affiliate&lt;/a&gt;, Don’t feel silly if you have no clue about blackhat marketing. Blackhat marketing uses little-known or not-so-known avenues to produce an income online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could easily be making money online in the underground world of <a href="http://www.www.blackhatmoneymaker.com" rel="nofollow">blackhat affiliate</a>, Don’t feel silly if you have no clue about blackhat marketing. Blackhat marketing uses little-known or not-so-known avenues to produce an income online.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara A. Albright</title>
		<link>http://levittownvetblog.com/general/clients-stop-playing-doctor/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara A. Albright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://levittownvetblog.com/?p=145#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Dr Friedrich:
&quot;3. Unfortunately we have to be so concerned about litigation that we have to cover our butts. If it wasn’t for the lawyers looking to fund their multiple summer homes and lavish lifestyles, we would not have to have a disclaimer at the end of every suggestion, recommendation, etc. We might be more inclined to offer some more advice without seeing the pet.&quot;

How on earth could you add #3 to your post? Litigation? That is so rare, even today, that it has allowed your malpractice premiums to remain at the paltry sum it is!

Lawyers taking cases to fund lavish homes? Again, lawyers willing to take a pet-vet mal case is extremely rare, because of the lack of &quot;$$$$&quot; to be had!

I wrote a lengthy post last night that didn&#039;t go through.

A brief repeat here: What other profession has no recourse for accountability? What profession allows continued licensure &amp; privacy for the most egregious of acts? Certainly not the human professions, that allow  legal suits, sanctions, and loss of employment.

It behooves those of you to finally step up and speak out, because those &#039;bad apples&#039; you have been silent about are dragging on the integrity and causing public mistrust and perception you do not deserve.

I happen to be in a system based soley on the preservation of public trust. The USPS does not hide, shuffle, or tolerate the unethical, criminal, or thievery. It is out the door, full prosecution, media announcement, and no sympathetic ear. Pensions are confiscated  for retribution and the public is assured of no &quot;second chances&quot;. Sadly, this principle became so ingrained over my last 22 years, it was naivete and shock to discover otherwise, particularly among highly educated and licensed professions.

It is also fair to say, that what is tolerated may be based on region, and the individual clinics and/or clinicians principles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Friedrich:<br />
&#8220;3. Unfortunately we have to be so concerned about litigation that we have to cover our butts. If it wasn’t for the lawyers looking to fund their multiple summer homes and lavish lifestyles, we would not have to have a disclaimer at the end of every suggestion, recommendation, etc. We might be more inclined to offer some more advice without seeing the pet.&#8221;</p>
<p>How on earth could you add #3 to your post? Litigation? That is so rare, even today, that it has allowed your malpractice premiums to remain at the paltry sum it is!</p>
<p>Lawyers taking cases to fund lavish homes? Again, lawyers willing to take a pet-vet mal case is extremely rare, because of the lack of &#8220;$$$$&#8221; to be had!</p>
<p>I wrote a lengthy post last night that didn&#8217;t go through.</p>
<p>A brief repeat here: What other profession has no recourse for accountability? What profession allows continued licensure &amp; privacy for the most egregious of acts? Certainly not the human professions, that allow  legal suits, sanctions, and loss of employment.</p>
<p>It behooves those of you to finally step up and speak out, because those &#8216;bad apples&#8217; you have been silent about are dragging on the integrity and causing public mistrust and perception you do not deserve.</p>
<p>I happen to be in a system based soley on the preservation of public trust. The USPS does not hide, shuffle, or tolerate the unethical, criminal, or thievery. It is out the door, full prosecution, media announcement, and no sympathetic ear. Pensions are confiscated  for retribution and the public is assured of no &#8220;second chances&#8221;. Sadly, this principle became so ingrained over my last 22 years, it was naivete and shock to discover otherwise, particularly among highly educated and licensed professions.</p>
<p>It is also fair to say, that what is tolerated may be based on region, and the individual clinics and/or clinicians principles.</p>
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		<title>By: EFriedrich, BVetmed, MRCVS</title>
		<link>http://levittownvetblog.com/general/clients-stop-playing-doctor/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>EFriedrich, BVetmed, MRCVS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://levittownvetblog.com/?p=145#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Wow, seems like a good discussion going on here.  My two cents for what it is worth.....  I am one of those ER vets that Dr. Leon mentioned earlier.  I field many phone calls during both day and night- offering as much hands-off help I can.  Best type of emergency I see (or rather do not see) is the one that isn&#039;t one (which I find out by getting on the phone and discussing the case with the owner in detail).  That being said, there are several good reasons why ER docs are so inclined to tell people &quot;To just come in...&quot;

1. We always want people aware of our interest and availibility to see their pet.  We live during a time ad area of exceptional medicine and ability to offer 24/7 care.

2. Regardless of how much info the owner gives about their pet, there is nothing like doing a true hands-on physical examination.  Since our furry friends cannot talk to us, unless we truly place our hands on them, who knows what kinda of health or state their bodies are in.  The last thing we want to do is tell owners to self-medicate their pets without a visit to either the ER or rDVM just to placate them so they do not think &quot;Vets are only in it for the money.&quot;  We went to vet school to actually treat animals, not polypharmacy them over the phone to appease clients.

3. Unfortunately we have to be so concerned about litigation that we have to cover our butts.  If it wasn&#039;t for the lawyers looking to fund their multiple summer homes and lavish lifestyles, we would not have to have a disclaimer at the end of every suggestion, recommendation, etc.  We might be more inclined to offer some more advice without seeing the pet.

In response to part of PJs post saying that the general practice veterinarian needs to be more reachable/able to see pets at all times: what was left out of this scenario is that during &quot;older veterinary medicine days,&quot; the general practice vet maybe would see the pet.  After working their long day, they make that extra effort to see this pet.  If it is sick, it gets hospitalized at the practice often without any supervision overnight.  How is this better than going to a facility where an ER doctor is not extending their shift just to see this pet, is fresh minded and specifically tailored to addressing emergent situations, AND the pet is monitored at all times?  To just dump the pet at the general practice is an antiquated way of practicing.  Coming to work in the morning to possible dead animals in the cage is not acceptable.

And lastly......IMHO, people in the medical field in general make the worst patients/clients.  That includes MDs, DDS, RN, LPN, DVM, LVT, etc.  I include myself in that.  How many of us in the medical field do exactly what our doctors tell us?  Not many......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, seems like a good discussion going on here.  My two cents for what it is worth&#8230;..  I am one of those ER vets that Dr. Leon mentioned earlier.  I field many phone calls during both day and night- offering as much hands-off help I can.  Best type of emergency I see (or rather do not see) is the one that isn&#8217;t one (which I find out by getting on the phone and discussing the case with the owner in detail).  That being said, there are several good reasons why ER docs are so inclined to tell people &#8220;To just come in&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>1. We always want people aware of our interest and availibility to see their pet.  We live during a time ad area of exceptional medicine and ability to offer 24/7 care.</p>
<p>2. Regardless of how much info the owner gives about their pet, there is nothing like doing a true hands-on physical examination.  Since our furry friends cannot talk to us, unless we truly place our hands on them, who knows what kinda of health or state their bodies are in.  The last thing we want to do is tell owners to self-medicate their pets without a visit to either the ER or rDVM just to placate them so they do not think &#8220;Vets are only in it for the money.&#8221;  We went to vet school to actually treat animals, not polypharmacy them over the phone to appease clients.</p>
<p>3. Unfortunately we have to be so concerned about litigation that we have to cover our butts.  If it wasn&#8217;t for the lawyers looking to fund their multiple summer homes and lavish lifestyles, we would not have to have a disclaimer at the end of every suggestion, recommendation, etc.  We might be more inclined to offer some more advice without seeing the pet.</p>
<p>In response to part of PJs post saying that the general practice veterinarian needs to be more reachable/able to see pets at all times: what was left out of this scenario is that during &#8220;older veterinary medicine days,&#8221; the general practice vet maybe would see the pet.  After working their long day, they make that extra effort to see this pet.  If it is sick, it gets hospitalized at the practice often without any supervision overnight.  How is this better than going to a facility where an ER doctor is not extending their shift just to see this pet, is fresh minded and specifically tailored to addressing emergent situations, AND the pet is monitored at all times?  To just dump the pet at the general practice is an antiquated way of practicing.  Coming to work in the morning to possible dead animals in the cage is not acceptable.</p>
<p>And lastly&#8230;&#8230;IMHO, people in the medical field in general make the worst patients/clients.  That includes MDs, DDS, RN, LPN, DVM, LVT, etc.  I include myself in that.  How many of us in the medical field do exactly what our doctors tell us?  Not many&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Leon, DVM</title>
		<link>http://levittownvetblog.com/general/clients-stop-playing-doctor/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Leon, DVM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://levittownvetblog.com/?p=145#comment-32</guid>
		<description>and in defense of any nurses who happen to be reading this, i do have plenty of RN, NP and PA clients who are wonderful people and all-around good clients :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and in defense of any nurses who happen to be reading this, i do have plenty of RN, NP and PA clients who are wonderful people and all-around good clients :)</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Leon, DVM</title>
		<link>http://levittownvetblog.com/general/clients-stop-playing-doctor/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Leon, DVM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://levittownvetblog.com/?p=145#comment-31</guid>
		<description>@barbara: i agree with both you and adam.  i think it does take a great deal of compassion, drive and love for animals to pursue a career in veterinary medicine.  BUT that does not mean that every veterinarian practices with those 3 ideals in mind.  there are plenty of bad veterinarians out there (as i pointed out in a previous blog) who are more motivated by financial gain than anything else.  and certainly there are physicians who fit the same bill.
i don&#039;t see too many issues with my own work ethic.  i work my butt off when i&#039;m at the hospital, and i almost always stay late to get all of my work done. i am without a doubt a workaholic, but when i&#039;m home, i want to be at home, relaxed and enjoying the company of my own pets and loved ones.  all work and no play ...well, you know how that one goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@barbara: i agree with both you and adam.  i think it does take a great deal of compassion, drive and love for animals to pursue a career in veterinary medicine.  BUT that does not mean that every veterinarian practices with those 3 ideals in mind.  there are plenty of bad veterinarians out there (as i pointed out in a previous blog) who are more motivated by financial gain than anything else.  and certainly there are physicians who fit the same bill.<br />
i don&#8217;t see too many issues with my own work ethic.  i work my butt off when i&#8217;m at the hospital, and i almost always stay late to get all of my work done. i am without a doubt a workaholic, but when i&#8217;m home, i want to be at home, relaxed and enjoying the company of my own pets and loved ones.  all work and no play &#8230;well, you know how that one goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara A. Albright</title>
		<link>http://levittownvetblog.com/general/clients-stop-playing-doctor/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara A. Albright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 02:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://levittownvetblog.com/?p=145#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Adam: @PJ: There is absolutely no way that a person can get through Veterinary school without compassion, drive, and love for animals. 

Say what??? Try that one again---perhaps you need to visit badvetdaily.blogspot.com to aprise yourself of a sampling of those wonderful vets that graduated &amp; became licensed. Better yet, click on my name &amp; gander at my website for awhile---took FOUR bad vets to pull that off on my defenseless pet.

You assume that a nurse has a chip on her shoulder, why? Because she is not an MD? That would be like saying vets have chips in a hospital setting, wouldn&#039;t it?

I have a hard time relating to the work ethics today. Since I am &quot;older&quot; than most, I remember when any medical field person simply felt duty to the job and patients: that included hospital personel, doctors, dentists, and yes siree vets too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam: @PJ: There is absolutely no way that a person can get through Veterinary school without compassion, drive, and love for animals. </p>
<p>Say what??? Try that one again&#8212;perhaps you need to visit badvetdaily.blogspot.com to aprise yourself of a sampling of those wonderful vets that graduated &amp; became licensed. Better yet, click on my name &amp; gander at my website for awhile&#8212;took FOUR bad vets to pull that off on my defenseless pet.</p>
<p>You assume that a nurse has a chip on her shoulder, why? Because she is not an MD? That would be like saying vets have chips in a hospital setting, wouldn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>I have a hard time relating to the work ethics today. Since I am &#8220;older&#8221; than most, I remember when any medical field person simply felt duty to the job and patients: that included hospital personel, doctors, dentists, and yes siree vets too.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Leon, DVM</title>
		<link>http://levittownvetblog.com/general/clients-stop-playing-doctor/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Leon, DVM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://levittownvetblog.com/?p=145#comment-29</guid>
		<description>hi adam. welcome to the blog. 
in defense (kinda) of the client, she did understand the potential risk of mixing steroids with nsaids.  the word &quot;prostaglandin&quot; even left her mouth :) but when i explained the dangers of mixing and the low tolerance for aspirin among dogs in general she said &quot;BS! i don&#039;t buy that!&quot; 
we take calculated risks in medicine all the time. in fact, most medical decisions come with some sort of risk-vs-benefit analysis.  the problem in this case was that the owner used her limited knowledge to prescribe a drug without doing any risk calculation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi adam. welcome to the blog.<br />
in defense (kinda) of the client, she did understand the potential risk of mixing steroids with nsaids.  the word &#8220;prostaglandin&#8221; even left her mouth :) but when i explained the dangers of mixing and the low tolerance for aspirin among dogs in general she said &#8220;BS! i don&#8217;t buy that!&#8221;<br />
we take calculated risks in medicine all the time. in fact, most medical decisions come with some sort of risk-vs-benefit analysis.  the problem in this case was that the owner used her limited knowledge to prescribe a drug without doing any risk calculation.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Ralston</title>
		<link>http://levittownvetblog.com/general/clients-stop-playing-doctor/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Ralston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://levittownvetblog.com/?p=145#comment-25</guid>
		<description>@Mark: I agree that some nurses have a chip on their shoulder. But I also feel that it is nice to have an educated client to speak to that understands (or in this case SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER) the medical issues at hand. 

There are responsibilities that come with owning a pet that people don&#039;t realize. I find that most purchases are an impulse/emotional buy. When you buy a pet you buy love first and not responsibility. It drives me insane. But as vets we should perhaps educate owners on their first visit? Maybe it is something the pet stores aren&#039;t doing?

@PJ: There is absolutely no way that a person can get through Veterinary school without compassion, drive, and love for animals. It is a constant day to day struggle to give yourself up 100% and still have the energy to remember who you are when you get home. We need to sleep, shower, eat, hug our friends, family, kids, watch our favorite movies too. I am human first, companion second, Veterinarian third. Until you have done after hours emergency calls or watched a patient you give everything to die, you have no right to say anything. 

Dr Leon did the best thing he could for that pet. The owner was wrong in giving NSAIDS with steroids. She was &quot;playing&quot; Dr. A little knowledge is dangerous. She had no IDEA what the complications could have been. Here&#039;s where it gets very dangerous: she might not have told Dr Leon the medication she had given. Unknowing, Dr. Leon could have prescribed a fatal medication. Our job is to be an advocate for the pet first, the owner second. The owner was just plain wrong. And the pet will suffer for it.

By the way PJ, how many hours a week do you work? And can I call you at home when I have questions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark: I agree that some nurses have a chip on their shoulder. But I also feel that it is nice to have an educated client to speak to that understands (or in this case SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER) the medical issues at hand. </p>
<p>There are responsibilities that come with owning a pet that people don&#8217;t realize. I find that most purchases are an impulse/emotional buy. When you buy a pet you buy love first and not responsibility. It drives me insane. But as vets we should perhaps educate owners on their first visit? Maybe it is something the pet stores aren&#8217;t doing?</p>
<p>@PJ: There is absolutely no way that a person can get through Veterinary school without compassion, drive, and love for animals. It is a constant day to day struggle to give yourself up 100% and still have the energy to remember who you are when you get home. We need to sleep, shower, eat, hug our friends, family, kids, watch our favorite movies too. I am human first, companion second, Veterinarian third. Until you have done after hours emergency calls or watched a patient you give everything to die, you have no right to say anything. </p>
<p>Dr Leon did the best thing he could for that pet. The owner was wrong in giving NSAIDS with steroids. She was &#8220;playing&#8221; Dr. A little knowledge is dangerous. She had no IDEA what the complications could have been. Here&#8217;s where it gets very dangerous: she might not have told Dr Leon the medication she had given. Unknowing, Dr. Leon could have prescribed a fatal medication. Our job is to be an advocate for the pet first, the owner second. The owner was just plain wrong. And the pet will suffer for it.</p>
<p>By the way PJ, how many hours a week do you work? And can I call you at home when I have questions?</p>
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